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 Post subject: Printing money with Guilds?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:13 am  
Scout

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@ mods, being fairly new here I'm not certain if this is in the right place, my apologies in advance.

Wall of text to follow - you have been warned!

So with the advent of Guild levels and guild perks in cata I believe there is a now a new way to print money: selling guild perks!

Rumor has it that some bigger, more established guilds have already started to ramp up for this, but I have not yet seen a wide proliferation of the concept so I figured I will post it here for discussion.

The business model in a nutshell:

1. Recruit people into your "guild" on the understanding that they are there solely for the guild perks associated with the guild levels.
2. Profit by collecting the extra 10% gold generated by the guild perk: Cash Flow

That's it.

Analysis:

The "target market" here is obviously not hardcore raiders, but rather people who prefer to play solo, in small groups, or people leveling alts that cannot gain entry into most serious raiding guilds until 85.

I believe that the appropriate way to market this is that it is not a guild, but a service that offers all the benefits of the guild perks. It would also be a free service, from the player's perspective, because the extra gold is generated by the system and not taken from the player.

The biggest hurdle, assuming that there is a fairly good supply of the type of players who would use this service, is the initial leveling of the guild itself.

To the best of my knowledge there isn't any hard data on, relatively, just how much it takes to level a guild. Early on the proposal would not be attractive to prospective "customers" because at level 1 you are not really offering any perks.

The easiest solution to this initial problem is to actually pay players to do things in your guild that will contribute to its level. The devil is in the detail of figuring out how to track that sort of activity and allocating the appropriate reward for it.

From your perspective you want to avoid free-riders, and also eliminate any perception of bias. Again we will have to wait for more solid data before these details can be worked out.

However I am also poor, and I most likely can't afford to find the initial capital to pay people to power level the guild (IPO anyone? :P ). So ideally there is some way to convince people to do this for you free of charge, most probably on the promise of being able to benefit from the perks once the guild reaches the appropriate level.

Related to this issue is that some guild perks, such as guild items, appears to require guild achievements, and not merely guild levels. Whilst these perks do not directly make you any money, they do make the service more attractive, and thus you will have more customers.

The beauty of this aspect is that these items require guild reputation to purchase, so you know people who are joining for these perks are guaranteed to make you money!

Again the cost benefit analysis is impossible to do with the current lack of data, but once you have maxed out the relevant guild levels for the passive perks, this will be the direction for further expansion.

When it is all set up, however, the guild levels and achievements form a natural barrier to entry against competitors, and it would not be hard to imagine that you would probably monopolise the market on smaller servers.

And, the beauty of it, after the initial work, is that it is passive income (the best sort of income), even if you are unsubbed!!


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 Post subject: Re: Printing money with Guilds?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:59 pm  
Scout

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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:52 pm
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not sure if it will work, but what about making BIG leveling guild, for low lvl chars and "abuse" 10% gold to guild bank bonus ?


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 Post subject: Re: Printing money with Guilds?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:15 pm  
Scout

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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:53 am
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Are there guild rep requirements in order for characters to benefit from guild perks?


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 Post subject: Re: Printing money with Guilds?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:47 pm  
Scout

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Can't find anything about this so I'm assuming guild rep will be needed only for mounts/herilooms/etc. not for perks.


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 Post subject: Re: Printing money with Guilds?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:58 pm  
Scout

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It is possible to run it as a big leveling guild. In fact I think a lot of the better established guilds are banking exactly on this.

However the issue you run into is that if it is marketed as a leveling guild, people will expect you to shell out for guild repairs at the minimum. And it will also take just that one smart ass to point out that you are skimming off the top to cause a drama implosion of epic proportions.

There is also obviously the amount of effort required on your part to be a good GM, and possibly an expectation to run lowbies through dungeons, help with quests etc.

I don't mind doing this sort of stuff for my real guildies, but this is a money making venture, and that is just too much effort, for me at least.

I think it is better to be upfront about what you are doing if you are going to run this, this avoids issues down the road.


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 Post subject: Re: Printing money with Guilds?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:20 am  
Sergeant

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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:14 pm
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Interesting concept, but I don't think it will fly. As mentioned previously, first the guild would need to be leveled enough to GET those perks, and that won't be easy.

Second, what perks, specifically, would benefit the solo player?


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 Post subject: Re: Printing money with Guilds?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:05 pm  
Scout

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Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:58 pm
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Benefits for solo play? I count 15 of the 25 perks as good for solo players:

More experience, more reputation, more honor, faster mount speed, smaller repair bills, faster hearthstone, faster profession leveling, more heroism points, better gathering, cheaper vendor prices.


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 Post subject: Re: Printing money with Guilds?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:44 am  
Sergeant

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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:43 am
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There are plenty of guilds out there that will have no problem if you turn off gchat and just do your own thing since the guild is benefiting from their leveling, gathering, crafting, etc., allowing those who would rather not be guilded to have access to the guild perk system. These same guilds would turn on the repair function and provide the gold earned back. I should know; I'm in one of them.

If you tell people up-front that you're only doing this to collect the extra 10% gold for your own pockets, most will probably tell you to get over yourself and then go and start a guild to do the exact same thing. If you don't tell people up-front and they discover it, not only will you be dealing with internal drama but likely some bad external press as well.

I personally find the idea to be in very poor taste and am quite certain that you're not the only person who thought of it. I can see this sort of abuse causing the 10% gained to be placed into a special fund that can only be utilized for repairs and bank tab purchases sometime down the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Printing money with Guilds?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:41 am  
Grunt

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Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:25 pm
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Crovaz wrote:
It is possible to run it as a big leveling guild. In fact I think a lot of the better established guilds are banking exactly on this.

However the issue you run into is that if it is marketed as a leveling guild, people will expect you to shell out for guild repairs at the minimum. And it will also take just that one smart ass to point out that you are skimming off the top to cause a drama implosion of epic proportions.

There is also obviously the amount of effort required on your part to be a good GM, and possibly an expectation to run lowbies through dungeons, help with quests etc.

I don't mind doing this sort of stuff for my real guildies, but this is a money making venture, and that is just too much effort, for me at least.

I think it is better to be upfront about what you are doing if you are going to run this, this avoids issues down the road.



Running it as a leveling guild may be the way to go, but yeah, running one isn't necessarily a picnic. From what I've seen, leveling guilds attract a lot of needy demanding people and have to be policed carefully. Granted, there's often a lot of great people too (some of my longest running wow friends came from the first leveling guild I was in), but they can get drowned out by the needy folks that want to be walked through everything.

If you do want to do this, though, a leveling guild might be a way to jumpstart the guild xp the fastest. Once it's at an acceptable and marketable level, you can dismantle the guild (though I'd suggest warning people first) before rebranding it as a way to trade the gold bonus for guild perks. Until then, use the money for guild subsidized repairs or something so that you don't have to deal with any unneeded drama.


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 Post subject: Re: Printing money with Guilds?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:15 am  
Scout

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yes, I agree that starting out as a leveling guild and then "converting" would help with the initial leveling of the guild.

but, as touchofidiocy is alluding to, that can bring in a whole host of ethical issues (but goblins are amoral, amirite? XD )

whilst I have no problem packaging it as a service and telling people up front that the guild bank is synonymous with my personal wallet, to start off as a leveling guild and then converting it upon reaching a desirable level is getting too close to violating my personal ethical standards for comfort, YMMV, of course

i will confess that i played EVE for a long time before coming to WoW, and in that game just about everything was commoditized and sold for profit

to a large extent that is the approach i am trying to take here:

guild perks are a valuable service,

they are not that easily accessible (sure, there is no bar to you starting your own one man guild, but how long before you obtain any relevant perks doing everything by yourself? not to mention some achievements are simply impossible unless you multi many boxes)

therefore a niche market should exist for the provision of these perks, especially since, from the player's perspective, the service is free

and surely, with proper marketing, the sheer novelty of the concept should attract enough initial interest to get to a critical mass?

all that theory aside, i have been keeping an eye on the trade channel for players looking for casual leveling guilds (whilst milling and making glyphs, oh god i want to kill myself but the money is sooo good compared to everything else right now) and have approached them with the idea

of the 4 people i have spoken to (confidence interval of 1% anyone?), i have actually managed to sign up 3 right now, before cata's even launched

even given the ridiculously small sample size, that's at least an empirical indication that this may well have a good reception if done right


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